Miller: Presumably after that, you were just working every day?

Mais: Every day, getting whatever bit of sleep you could, day and night. It was incredible, considering they were scratch units who basically hadn't put two pieces together before. A few of the NCO's had been taken up to show, but had no idea, really, from a security point of view, what it was going to be. And the first time they really got their hands on it is when they had to do it on the other side.

Miller: And prior to that, as you said, you hadn't had an opportunity to train them, or have an exercise and give them an idea, so I guess they didn't actually know what they were going to do anyway. They had no concept of what it was that they were required to produce.

Mais: I can't really answer that question. The best chap to ask if your seeing him is Carn, because Carn commanded the floating equipment companies, and was my second in command after I had taken over. But he'd been with the companies for quite a long time. He'd been up to Faslay and places where that was being made. I don't know how much they knew. All I do know is when I first came in contact with them on the Isle of Wight, I had precious little idea of what the whole scheme was going to be. No one had shown a plan of what it was going to be over on the side. And I don't know how, what opportunity (if any) that the officers or NCO's of the floating equipment company, whether they were taken to Faslay and shown the units, and given any idea. I would suspect -- I'm sure they didn't mention it to me. But then, that's -- my own feeling is that the first time those chaps really saw it was in Normandy. I think the security was so tight. See, we were down -- I was down with them for a month before they went, _____ Fishborne Creek in the Isle of Wight where they were all living up in _____ in trees, under trees. I don't think I saw two bits of the piers, sections of the piers, floating about. And I don't think any of us really knew.

Miller: When you were told to report to London, were you told what you were going to report for, or were you just told that you had to go there?

Mais: No, combined operations told me that I was posted to 21st Army Group, their support school, and I could take two officers with me of my selection. I could take two NCO's, driver, two drivers, no officers. Yes, two officers. Red and Smith and Davison. So we went and we set off, and we reported at 21st Army Group, and then that was the first time I heard Mulberry mentioned, and I said, "What the hell is Mulberry?" I was taken away and looked in a room while they told me all about it.

Miller: Oh really?

Mais: And I had about two weeks, I suppose, of support school, learning a little bit more about it but not very much, getting to know the brigadier, Walter, who was in charge of it. And then I was whisked off and told to go to Fishborne Creek in the Isle of Wight.

Miller: What was the atmosphere at _____ school? Was it very sort of frenzied?

Mais: No, I don't -- looking back, no, I don't think so. We were very much a separate little unit, not part of the whole. There was an air of expectancy, but then there ____ is much excitement at a _______ anything back of that. And then we were given a _____ in the local cinema in Hammersmith, by Monty, which didn't tell us very much.

Miller: So what did you say you were given?

Mais: We were given, I suppose, a pep talk. We weren't sort of told how and what, and one question was discussing the plan, he merely told you, told us what lucky fellows we were to be part of where we were going. And it was everybody down to majors.

Miller: Was the reaction good to that point? 

Mais; Oh, yes. I think the feeling, I'm looking back after forty odd years, the tales were right up. But there were so many of us who had been thrown out in '40. It was a very high morale. And then, as I say, I collected my jeep, and couple of fifteen hundred words, and said off for Fishborne Creek. That's when I found -- first time I met Carn.

Miller: What was your best guess at that time, vis a vis the timing, and the possible date of the invasion. Did you imagine that it was quite imminent, or did you think there was quite some time to go.

Mais: I knew it must be imminent. I knew that _________ from what I heard in command operations. It was -- we had reached the stage when it wouldn't be long before we went back. Well, then you got down to support school, you knew it couldn't be very far off from the planning side, what was going on, the number of people there.

Miller: So you thought it was a matter of weeks, did you?

Mais: I wouldn't say I ever got to the point of thinking it was weeks until I got down to Fishborne Creek, and found how really un-ready and untrained the chaps were, who hadn't had a chance to put it together at all, and I remember getting in my jeep, heading on the ferry, going over to Portsmouth, driving to 2nd Army ____ rear headquarters, or advanced headquarters, on the cliff east of Portsmouth. I don't remember the name, they were there. I went in and asked permission to run an exercise. And I was told, "We don't need to, Leftenant Colonel." On my own reason, I suppose. And he said, "What date do you want to do it?" I said, "Well, any time within the next ten days." And he came back and he said, "You can't have an exercise." I blew up, and I said, "Look fellow, enough of this. If we could believe what we've been told, this is vital. I had really only seen him four days, five days ago. I've seen the troops. I have my doubts about their capability, and I know roughly what we've got to do. All I'm asking is, we can build one pier, half the length we've got to, out into some sort of open water." He said, "No." I said, "I'm sorry, I'm not taking it from you. It's so important. I've got to go over your head." "Sir, I don't think that will be necessary. You'll get the same answer." But in the end, I still said with a little _________ on his face, said, "Can't even you think of one reason why you bloody well can't have an exercise?" I said, "No, I can't." He said, "Well, there's no hope for you." And then the penny dropped, and I must have gone white, I think. He said, "I think that you do realize why you can't."

Miller: What did you say to the troops when you got back? I mean, how could you explain that to them?

Mais: He gave me a glass of sherry before I went, and said, "I'm sorry, but we never had this meeting." And I said, "Don't tell my officers anything?" He said, "No, nothing." And I said, "Well, what am I going to tell them about no exercise?" He said, "That's your business, not mine." And I went back, and everybody was all keyed up, and I said, "No, there will be no exercise. Security reasons, no exercise." And they couldn't understand that, and I said, "Well, if we built a pier and it was sticking out in the water, and they do low level reconnaissance they'll have a very good idea of what we're doing, so the answer it no." And I think Ronny Carn came to me later on and said, "That's not a very satisfactory reason for not doing it. I think I know why." I said I wouldn't be surprised. And that was the end of it. There was a certain amount of grumbling from the troops as why they couldn't play with the bits that got out.

Miller: So what actually were the troops able to do at that time? I mean, how -- well, what preparations could you give them, for what sort of job they actually had to do?

Mais: I can't in fact remember being able to do anything. They were stuck in this bivouac area. I knew we were in an awful lot of trouble with drunks and ______. We were most unpopular with the ______ populace. To the best of my recollection, we could do nothing, and the first time we started putting anything together was in Normandy.

Miller: Then you were surprised by their diligence, or . . .?